Reality Check: How Our Stories Create the World We See

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Jim Conrad: Welcome to the Conovision
Podcast, the spirit of storytelling.

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I am Jim Conrad, AKA Cono, and
today on episode nine we tell

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stories about the nature of reality.

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Yes, I'm aiming high.

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We'll ask some questions around
that, as well as have an interview

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with a good friend, John Good,
businessman, entrepreneur, former

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television news anchor, media
personality, and part of a very famous

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broadcasting family here in Vancouver.

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Son of Bill Good Sr and brother of
Bill Good Jr. That's a bit later.

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Also an essay from Julio Olalla about
the various crises of the Western mind.

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But first, let's talk about the
nature of reality, the reality of

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nature, and the question, are we
both inside and outside of both.

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Our environment of the senses, sees,
hears, tastes, smells, and touches

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the fusion of nature into a reality
that we bring into consciousness.

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We call it perception, but do
we really understand nature?

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Do we really understand reality?

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And what are the limits of our
conscious and unconscious minds?

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Is there an objective reality,
independent of thought?

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Well, what do the thinkers
think about all this?

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Werner Heisenberg, the famous physicist,
and Carl Jung, the famous psychoanalyst,

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both shaped 20th century thought
by challenging rigid materialism,

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finding common ground between
quantum physics and depth psychology.

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Heisenberg's uncertainty principle
and Jung's archetypes both suggest

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that fundamental underlying structures
govern reality, often appearing

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in symbolic or mathematical form.

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While Jung worked more closely with
physicist Wolfgang Pauli on the

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concept of synchronicity, meaningful
coincidences, bridging matter, and psyche.

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Or as GK Chesterton said of
coincidences, they are spiritual puns.

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This circle of thinkers, Heisenberg,
Pauli, and Jung, sought to

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unite science and spirituality.

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Jung's concept of synchronicity and
Heisenberg's quantum mechanics challenged

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traditional cause and effect pointing
toward a non-local, interconnected world.

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Heisenberg's work like Jung's highlights
that the tenuous nature of reality

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requires recognizing the limitations
of purely objective observation.

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Here's a quote from Heisenberg.

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The first gulp from the glass of natural
sciences will turn you into an atheist.

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But at the bottom of the
glass, God is waiting for you.

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Yes, God.

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The God.

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The Gods.

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The unsolvable puzzle, the
imponderable enigma, shrouded in

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mystery, smothered in secret sauce.

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And finally this from Charles B Newcomb,
author of Psychic Philosophy and the

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Awakening of Spiritual Consciousness.

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Let us move on and step out boldly,
though it be into the night and

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we can scarcely see the way.

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A higher intelligence than the
mortal sees the road before us.

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We live in interesting times, challenging
times, as a result of the coming

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together of several significant factors.

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This moment in time right here,
right now, is turning out to

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be especially consequential.

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Here in the West after centuries of
relative stability and consistency in

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our ways of thinking, we are beginning to
look around and see other possibilities.

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This new openness is clearly related
to a series of crises that have

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been emerging in Western culture.

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First, the crisis of epistemology.

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The theory of knowledge,
especially with regard to its

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methods, validity, and scope.

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Epistemology is the investigation
of what distinguishes

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justified belief from opinion.

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Consider for a moment the paradigm
of rationalism that has permeated

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Western culture ever since Plato.

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The far reaching results of this paradigm,
so clearly seen in the extraordinary

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achievements of science and its sister
disciplines of mathematics and logic,

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along with the use of the scientific
method are surely not debatable.

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However, the truly extraordinary
evolution of Western science also

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carries with it two core epistemological
assumptions of great significance.

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The first assumption is basically
that of scientism, the belief that

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science and scientific thinking alone
can determine what is to be accepted

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as real, as well as determining
the scope of what can be known.

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Under this presupposition, everything
must be either subject to the laws of

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physics, chemistry, biology, and other
scientific disciplines, or else not

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be considered an objective experience.

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Spirituality long regarded with deep
suspicion, if not contempt by science,

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and even aesthetics, intuition, emotion
and morality, have been reduced to the

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status of variable functions of brain
chemistry, interacting with certain

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microbiological laws of human evolution.

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Furthermore, in addition to telling
us what can be known, science also

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dictates how this can be known either
the acquisition of knowledge proceeds

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according to the well-established precepts
of the scientific method, or if not, it

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is to be regarded as being of secondary
importance or even absolute bullshit.

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The three central parameters of
this method are objectivism, the

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assumption that there is an objective
universe that can be explored and

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known scientifically, positivism, the
assumption that only what is physically

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observable counts as scientifically real.

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And reductionism, the assumption that
scientific explanation proceeds by

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explaining more complex phenomena in
terms of more elementary ones, or in other

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words, the whole in terms of its parts.

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Adhering to these principles results
in whole realms of human experience

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being left out, or alternatively,
in the belief that the systematic

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exploration of these realms can no
longer lay claim to the official

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designation of knowledge, and that any
prestige that naturally accompanies

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this scientific principle is lost.

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Meanwhile, as human beings
our deep desire for wisdom and

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wholeness remains unfulfilled.

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The second epistemological assumption
that underlies Western science is that

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knowledge is to be acquired primarily
for the sake of manipulating the

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physical world, for dominating nature.

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As Sir Francis Bacon, the father
of the scientific method, insisted

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the universe is seen simply
as a resource to be exploited.

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And so our whole focus becomes one
of figuring out how to accomplish

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this domination effectively.

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Paradoxically, oh, and by the way, a
paradox as defined by GK Chesterton

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is the truth standing on its head
trying to draw attention to itself.

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So yes, paradoxically, our very
obsession to dominate and control nature

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is leading to a situation that seems
increasingly dangerous and out of control.

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We appear to be completely unable to
restrain our tendency to pollute the

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atmosphere, poison our lakes and streams,
destroy our forests, and decimate

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our rich inheritance of animal life.

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Tragically, we have almost completely
lost the more primordial view of the world

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as a place of dwelling, a place we feel
inherently connected to and at home in.

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Now comes the crisis of capitalism.

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As a result of this manipulative
stance toward the world, we have become

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very good at two things, acquiring
knowledge and acting effectively in

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order to put this knowledge to good use.

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It's scarcely surprising then,
that technology and business

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management have become two of the
driving forces shaping our culture.

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As we continue to move forward into
this relatively new century, we can see

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the impact of these forces pervading
almost every aspect of our daily lives.

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The success of technology-based companies,
or in other words, modern capitalism,

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can seemingly no more be doubted
than the success of the rationalistic

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scientific paradigm that underlies them.

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Indeed, since the fall of the Berlin
Wall in 1989, signaling the end of

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communism and the collapse of the
Soviet Empire, capitalism appears

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to have emerged triumphant as the
virtually unchallengeable model.

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A model that most countries long to
imitate with the G7 countries, and

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others, as the clear, intellectual,
political, technological,

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industrial, and military leaders.

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What has become inherent in modern
capitalism is a deep commitment to growth

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for its own sake, and for the ceaseless
accumulation of wealth and power, often

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with little regard for other values.

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What we're witnessing now is a gap
between the well off and the poor that

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is growing daily and may be approaching
a dangerous point of instability.

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Today, roughly 3% of the human population
owns close to 50% of all human wealth.

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Business organizations today are obsessed
with a single concern, how to push the

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rate of growth and profit ever higher.

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Unlike nature, which appears to be
governed by a law of dynamic homeostasis

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dictating when a process of growth
or change should move forward, slow

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down, or stop altogether, present
day capitalism appears never to

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recognize a point of this is enough.

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Imagine a CEO of a company addressing an A
GM and saying, we're not growing anymore.

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Sorry.

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He'd be run outta town on a rail.

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And onward to the crisis of disconnection.

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The Copernican revolution, despite
its brilliant impact in both science

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and philosophy, ended up leaving us
inhabiting a cold purposeless universe

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in which the appearance of humankind
shows up only as a cosmological accident,

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an epiphenomenon of matter, far from
being at the very center of a divinely

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ordained and ordered cosmos, which
was then believed, we found ourselves

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radically decentered, condemned to exist
as the soul beings that are endowed with

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intelligence and purpose, yet in a silent,
mindless, aimless, mechanical universe.

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In many preceding eras and cultures,
human beings have felt a deep

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sense of connection with the world.

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Seen, for example, in their
willingness to listen to the various

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ways that nature spoke to them.

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In the medieval Christian Times,
the natural world was regarded as an

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expression of God's glory and benevolence.

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In our post Copernican world, however, we
experience a profound cosmic loneliness.

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Nature no longer has anything to
say and remains silent in the face

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of our analytical probings, adrift
in a boundaryless realm of space

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and time, devoid of a spiritual
dimension to our lives, we find it

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increasingly hard to make sense of
ourselves or our reason for existing.

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The universe has become disenchanted.

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This sense of deep and seemingly
ineradicable loneliness and disconnection

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is beginning to seep into our bones.

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We can see it at a very practical
level, for example, in the

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epidemic of depression, now
sweeping much of the Western world.

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We also recognize its symptoms
and our loss of community life.

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Even in our relationships
with one another.

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There are a growing number of
people choosing to live alone.

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In our business organizations, we
are failing to find opportunities

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to pursue fulfilling lives.

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Instead, we become obsessed with
a single gain called more, faster,

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and short term profits regardless
of the cost, in terms of the

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impoverishment of human relationships
and the loss of the dignity of work.

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Even medicine and some schools
of psychology have contributed

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to our sense of disconnectedness
and alienation from the universe.

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By stripping human beings of any
spiritual dimension, we no longer sense

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our dependence on one another and on
the universe, which used to be seen as

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our fundamentally benevolent source.

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Our whole understanding of
ourselves has, as a consequence,

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been profoundly affected.

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We are losing the balance between our
individuality, our community, and nature.

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A loss that goes right along
with the reductionism of Western

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science, which races the status of
the parts over that of the whole.

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Blind to our multiple connections
with the world, instead of seeing

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life as an opportunity to serve,
we fall into a mood of ingratitude.

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We consider ourselves to be
primarily the worthy recipient while

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failing to engage in any kind of
reciprocity, let alone generosity.

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Just as we become disconnected from
nature and society, we also become

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alienated from ourselves, particularly
in regard to our emotions and our bodies.

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This may at first seem puzzling
in this age of psychotherapy.

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Perhaps we should see the growing
demand for psychotherapy as itself

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a measure of the degree of our
emotional and physical malaise.

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What has arisen in response to our
sense of alienation, of course, is

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the pervasive self-help movement.

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As anyone who buys books knows, the
self-help section in most bookstores

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is usually one of the largest.

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No doubt such a flood of advice regarding
how to live is not all misguided.

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Clearly, many people are genuinely
helped by this trend, but much of this

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guidance appears to be aimed at learning
to manipulate ourselves just as we have

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dedicated ourselves to acquire knowledge
in order to manipulate and control nature.

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Unfortunately, this is not a very
effective approach to the learning that

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appears to be needed precisely because it
focuses attention on the isolated self.

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It is true that we are individuals born
with particular predispositions, but we

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tend to forget that culture, society,
and nature are also dimensions of self.

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One clear sign of this radical
impoverishment of our sources is

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a pervasive lack of passion in our
personal and professional lives.

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We hold passion as an
opposite of intelligence.

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It is a common occurrence to encounter
people who consider us foolish or naive

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if we dare to show passion for anything.

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Passion can be understood as a mystical
act, constituting nothing less than a

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predisposition to fuse with the world.

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Whether we lose ourselves in a task that
we are deeply engaged in or melt together

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with another person in the act of making
love, passion shows up as an experience

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of merging with our surroundings.

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The act of service may also
engender passion as we are drawn

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to become ourselves in the act
of aiding and supporting others.

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Passion then is the emotion of
connectedness par excellence.

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We unquestionably need moments of
passion in order to lead healthy,

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fulfilling, satisfying lives.

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But how can we experience passion
when we find ourselves living

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disconnected in a meaningless world?

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What we are left with all too often
is passion limited to the physical

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act of sex, and little else.

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A situation that renders
our lives dry and deeply

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unsatisfying.

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And finally, the crisis in learning.

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This sense of disconnectedness also
spills over into the realm of education.

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Our view of learning is deeply affected
by the pervasiveness of this rationalistic

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scientific worldview, just as knowledge
is about acquisition, manipulation,

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and consumption, so learning, as
currently organized in our schools and

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colleges, has come to be centered on
accumulating and utilizing information.

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But learning is not just about gathering
and applying information to produce

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ever more effective action in the world.

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This reductionist view of schooling
is quite antagonistic to the broader,

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traditional ideal of education
as a means to learn how to live

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both wisely and well in our world.

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Is it any wonder then that our children
are completely turned off by school,

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seeing it as more or less irrelevant
to their future, beyond the acquisition

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of a certain set of credentials.

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These crises that have arisen from the
progressive outworking of these dominant

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factors in Western culture, together
with the general lack of balance that

00:20:28.560 --> 00:20:34.409
they have generated, produce breakdowns
that we encounter again and again on

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the personal, community, governmental,
and breakdowns In leadership.

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Our task is to embrace our
difficulties in a mood of complete

00:20:47.550 --> 00:20:50.250
honesty, openness, and acceptance.

00:20:51.300 --> 00:20:55.590
Let us remind ourselves that the
seeds of change are contained

00:20:55.920 --> 00:20:57.750
in the difficulties themselves.

00:21:00.870 --> 00:21:06.840
This is our task, to reconnect
and reestablish our natural

00:21:07.290 --> 00:21:09.870
union with the universe.

00:21:11.940 --> 00:21:16.170
In the West, we have for centuries
focused on separating ourselves

00:21:16.200 --> 00:21:20.760
from the world, from the universe,
accumulating knowledge for the sake of

00:21:20.760 --> 00:21:25.890
better understanding and exploiting its
resources, including what in the business

00:21:25.890 --> 00:21:28.680
world we now call human resources.

00:21:29.250 --> 00:21:32.640
This has been carried out using
rationalistic scientific modes of

00:21:32.640 --> 00:21:37.815
thinking that have proved extraordinarily
powerful in accomplishing this task.

00:21:39.765 --> 00:21:42.435
This critique of Western
thinking is not intended in any

00:21:42.435 --> 00:21:44.355
way as an outright rejection.

00:21:44.715 --> 00:21:45.705
That would be absurd.

00:21:46.455 --> 00:21:50.565
What we are aiming for here is
to achieve a better balance by

00:21:50.565 --> 00:21:55.215
integrating the Eastern emphasis
on contemplation and merging, with

00:21:55.215 --> 00:21:58.815
the Western focus on analytical
understanding and effective action.

00:21:59.865 --> 00:22:04.995
Such an integration would overcome the
historical but unnecessary antagonism

00:22:04.995 --> 00:22:10.635
between these two diverging paths, taking
hold of the best of each tradition.

00:22:11.955 --> 00:22:17.745
To be more precise, it is the recognition
that the process of fusion and separation

00:22:18.135 --> 00:22:24.315
constitutes the dynamic aspect of
what it is to be human in this world.

00:22:26.115 --> 00:22:30.375
When we merge, we connect, but
the very nature of fusing means

00:22:30.375 --> 00:22:34.065
that we are often unaware of the
intrinsic nature of the connection.

00:22:34.815 --> 00:22:38.985
Correspondingly, when we become
observers, we step away from the

00:22:38.985 --> 00:22:43.455
world for the sake of understanding
and of generating effective action.

00:22:44.655 --> 00:22:49.455
Addressing the pressing issues of
today's world requires that we master

00:22:49.455 --> 00:22:51.435
both dimensions of this dynamic.

00:22:52.305 --> 00:22:57.345
We need to bring them into balance,
while at the same time acknowledging

00:22:57.705 --> 00:23:01.635
the mystery that ultimately underlies

00:23:19.745 --> 00:23:20.015
them both.

00:23:22.445 --> 00:23:24.330
Welcome to the Conovision Podcast.

00:23:24.330 --> 00:23:27.399
I'm Jim Conrad, joined by John Good.

00:23:27.420 --> 00:23:28.830
John, nice to have you here.

00:23:28.950 --> 00:23:30.870
John Good: I'm feeling
very important today, Jim.

00:23:31.050 --> 00:23:31.560
Jim Conrad: As well.

00:23:31.560 --> 00:23:32.220
You should.

00:23:32.790 --> 00:23:33.720
You're a VIP.

00:23:33.720 --> 00:23:36.060
You're on the Conovision podcast.

00:23:36.240 --> 00:23:39.540
Uh, I'll let the audience in on a
little fact that I know about you.

00:23:39.690 --> 00:23:45.420
Your last name is Good, and
your family is rather famous

00:23:45.480 --> 00:23:48.060
in Vancouver in broadcasting.

00:23:49.065 --> 00:23:50.595
John Good: Well, they're
well known in Western Canada.

00:23:50.655 --> 00:23:51.195
Jim Conrad: Western Canada.

00:23:51.225 --> 00:23:51.465
John Good: Yeah.

00:23:51.524 --> 00:23:52.695
My father and my brother.

00:23:52.905 --> 00:23:55.065
Jim Conrad: So your father
was Bill Good Senior.

00:23:55.425 --> 00:23:58.845
And your brother is Bill
Good, longtime CBC anchor.

00:23:58.875 --> 00:24:01.995
John Good: Well, I remember
it as my father was Bill Good.

00:24:02.115 --> 00:24:02.355
Jim Conrad: Yes.

00:24:02.385 --> 00:24:04.155
John Good: And my brother
is Bill Good Junior.

00:24:04.395 --> 00:24:09.225
And then somewhere along the way,
as my father aged and retired and my

00:24:09.225 --> 00:24:13.395
brother became more prominent in the
community, he dropped the Junior.

00:24:13.485 --> 00:24:13.815
Jim Conrad: Yes.

00:24:14.024 --> 00:24:15.945
John Good: And they
called the old man Senior.

00:24:16.004 --> 00:24:17.855
So nobody seemed to mind that.

00:24:19.205 --> 00:24:20.965
And uh, I came along.

00:24:21.370 --> 00:24:25.630
I was, uh, employed out here in the
West, starting out in, in my career.

00:24:25.720 --> 00:24:28.960
I actually did work out East for
quite a few years, and they never did.

00:24:29.380 --> 00:24:32.170
Jim Conrad: So they were, they
were Western Canadian broadcasters.

00:24:32.170 --> 00:24:33.490
But you went back East.

00:24:33.760 --> 00:24:38.950
Now being from a, uh, a
broadcasting family and then being

00:24:38.950 --> 00:24:42.610
the youngest and getting into
broadcasting, did the name help you?

00:24:43.090 --> 00:24:44.380
John Good: That's a really good question.

00:24:44.650 --> 00:24:46.780
It had a, it had an influence.

00:24:47.290 --> 00:24:50.020
I wouldn't use the word help, and
I've never really thought about it

00:24:50.020 --> 00:24:54.280
right now because there were, there
were negative connotations to that.

00:24:54.550 --> 00:24:56.850
And by that I mean being
quite a bit younger.

00:24:57.800 --> 00:25:00.460
And in a competitive profession.

00:25:00.670 --> 00:25:03.520
I kind of got into the
business really accidentally.

00:25:04.000 --> 00:25:07.030
And my brother on the other
hand, had planned his whole life.

00:25:07.300 --> 00:25:09.550
I never planned 15 minutes
ahead for anything.

00:25:11.200 --> 00:25:13.060
I left home young, I left home early.

00:25:13.360 --> 00:25:14.320
I left school early.

00:25:14.745 --> 00:25:17.655
Jim Conrad: Because if there is
no plan, there is no failure.

00:25:18.195 --> 00:25:18.885
John Good: Oh, yes, there is.

00:25:21.885 --> 00:25:22.845
There can be failure.

00:25:22.845 --> 00:25:25.515
And I once heard someone say,
I don't believe in failure.

00:25:25.515 --> 00:25:27.465
I believe that you succeed
or you learn something.

00:25:27.765 --> 00:25:32.150
That was Peter Brown, who's a well-known
financial businessman, in Canada.

00:25:32.980 --> 00:25:36.940
He's a friend, a colleague, and
a, in a way, a mentor, Peter.

00:25:36.940 --> 00:25:39.730
But yeah, he's, uh, he's, uh, he
said a lot of really important

00:25:39.730 --> 00:25:40.720
things that I remembered.

00:25:41.050 --> 00:25:43.090
So when you say, did it help?

00:25:44.050 --> 00:25:46.510
you know, it's funny, in those
days, we all started pretty young,

00:25:46.629 --> 00:25:49.750
and I remember, as I said, I got
into the business accidentally.

00:25:49.750 --> 00:25:52.090
I was actually working
in a car dealership.

00:25:52.720 --> 00:25:56.679
I'd left Vancouver, I was 17 or
18, left school, went to work in

00:25:56.679 --> 00:26:01.870
Williams Lake, and, uh, colleague of
my father, came through town and my

00:26:01.870 --> 00:26:03.490
father had asked him to say hello.

00:26:03.639 --> 00:26:07.210
Anyways, Larry Rose showed up and
saw me in my misery in the car

00:26:07.210 --> 00:26:11.350
dealership and, and, um, and said,
look, maybe you'd like to consider

00:26:11.350 --> 00:26:12.550
something in the radio business.

00:26:12.550 --> 00:26:14.870
There's, there's, I'm
heading off to the Kootney's.

00:26:15.100 --> 00:26:19.090
Jim Conrad: And he wouldn't have
tinged on that had he not known that

00:26:19.090 --> 00:26:20.710
you were from a broadcasting family?

00:26:20.980 --> 00:26:22.510
John Good: Well, I knew Larry.

00:26:22.629 --> 00:26:22.840
Jim Conrad: Yeah.

00:26:22.870 --> 00:26:25.899
John Good: Because I had met him in
Vancouver and he worked with my father.

00:26:25.899 --> 00:26:28.370
And, but he stopped and he said,
well, this really nice guy.

00:26:28.490 --> 00:26:31.370
And he said, um, and I was
having fun in Williams Lake.

00:26:31.399 --> 00:26:33.379
I mean, I was what, 18, 17 years old?

00:26:33.379 --> 00:26:34.429
I mean, who's not having fun.

00:26:34.490 --> 00:26:35.179
Jim Conrad: Selling cars.

00:26:35.540 --> 00:26:37.100
John Good: Well, I wasn't
really selling cars.

00:26:38.960 --> 00:26:40.100
I was not selling cars.

00:26:40.129 --> 00:26:40.370
Jim Conrad: Yeah.

00:26:40.790 --> 00:26:43.280
John Good: But I was having fun anyways,
because I did other things at the

00:26:43.280 --> 00:26:44.929
dealership and tried to sell cars.

00:26:44.929 --> 00:26:50.000
And it was, it was really interesting
to, to be, um, associated at such

00:26:50.000 --> 00:26:55.399
a young age with some grizzle old
veteran salesmen who were war veterans.

00:26:55.429 --> 00:26:55.550
Jim Conrad: Yeah.

00:26:55.550 --> 00:26:56.990
John Good: I mean, this
was the late sixties.

00:26:57.020 --> 00:27:01.490
So these guys had actually been in the
war, came back, had jobs, and they were

00:27:01.490 --> 00:27:03.649
like, really salt of the earth people.

00:27:04.220 --> 00:27:07.730
Larry came through and I, and I had
been there for maybe a few months

00:27:07.760 --> 00:27:11.960
and I said, well, I'll give it a shot
because, um, there's a well-known,

00:27:12.169 --> 00:27:14.150
formerly well-known David Houle.

00:27:14.360 --> 00:27:14.600
Jim Conrad: Yes.

00:27:14.780 --> 00:27:17.750
John Good: His father, Lloyd
Houle and his partner owned a

00:27:17.780 --> 00:27:19.550
small radio station in Cranbrook.

00:27:19.760 --> 00:27:24.810
So, uh, I was offered the job,
so I got on my motorcycle and

00:27:24.810 --> 00:27:26.130
made my way over to Cranbrook.

00:27:26.190 --> 00:27:27.210
Jim Conrad: What were you riding then?

00:27:27.570 --> 00:27:28.500
John Good: A Triumph Bonneville.

00:27:28.650 --> 00:27:30.630
19, it was 1958.

00:27:31.080 --> 00:27:33.660
I mean, in those days, I mean,
I started working really young.

00:27:34.110 --> 00:27:36.750
Jim Conrad: Now was that because, and
we've, because we know each other,

00:27:36.750 --> 00:27:41.100
you've talked about this and I had
another guest on the show, uh, hockey

00:27:41.100 --> 00:27:42.630
player, Alec Tidey, who we both know.

00:27:42.630 --> 00:27:42.870
John Good: Yep.

00:27:43.170 --> 00:27:45.930
Jim Conrad: Who was
dyslexic and is dyslexic.

00:27:46.050 --> 00:27:48.240
And is that, is your story as well.

00:27:48.245 --> 00:27:49.140
John Good: I have, I am dyslexic.

00:27:49.230 --> 00:27:49.380
Jim Conrad: Yes.

00:27:49.440 --> 00:27:49.650
John Good: Yeah.

00:27:49.950 --> 00:27:51.750
And in my case, it gets worse.

00:27:51.930 --> 00:27:52.260
Jim Conrad: Okay.

00:27:52.380 --> 00:27:56.910
John Good: In education in those days,
it was a, an affliction, I call it, or

00:27:57.090 --> 00:28:00.450
I'm not sure what the technical term is,
but that's what I call it, I refer to it.

00:28:00.960 --> 00:28:02.820
I didn't know I had those challenges.

00:28:02.820 --> 00:28:06.960
I was just a pretty normal, average
kid up until I went to school.

00:28:07.830 --> 00:28:10.590
And then there were
obvious glaring challenges.

00:28:10.590 --> 00:28:12.060
Jim Conrad: You couldn't
read like the other kids.

00:28:12.060 --> 00:28:12.070
John Good: No.

00:28:12.320 --> 00:28:12.530
Jim Conrad: Yeah.

00:28:12.560 --> 00:28:16.760
John Good: Or write or print or even
understand certain patterns in, in

00:28:16.760 --> 00:28:21.350
the same way, uh, that, that other
people, especially peers would.

00:28:21.440 --> 00:28:26.390
So long story short is because of that
affliction, you do develop other skills

00:28:26.390 --> 00:28:28.070
and one of the skills is concealing.

00:28:28.460 --> 00:28:31.940
Long story short, I faked it till
about grade eight, and then when

00:28:31.940 --> 00:28:37.290
math became more complex than
arithmetic, it, was hopeless.

00:28:37.350 --> 00:28:43.500
So I, I guess I acted out in certain
ways and the acting out, uh, led to

00:28:43.500 --> 00:28:48.360
a place where the school authorities
and my family negotiated an exit.

00:28:49.740 --> 00:28:50.670
Jim Conrad: There was an exit strategy.

00:28:50.680 --> 00:28:51.050
John Good: Yeah there was.

00:28:51.050 --> 00:28:51.540
Jim Conrad: Negotiated.

00:28:51.560 --> 00:28:51.740
Yeah.

00:28:52.340 --> 00:28:56.880
John Good: But by that time I was, you
know, 15 or 16 and I was six feet tall.

00:28:56.880 --> 00:29:00.720
And I, uh, I went to work, I
went to work in a steel mill

00:29:00.780 --> 00:29:02.880
when I was 16, punching a clock.

00:29:03.120 --> 00:29:05.340
I can still remember it was
called Napco Industries.

00:29:05.580 --> 00:29:11.550
And we took tanks, army tanks, that were
shipped over here and they were altered

00:29:11.550 --> 00:29:14.340
and modified into spar trees for logging.

00:29:14.340 --> 00:29:18.600
Now, I don't know whether you know this,
but tanks are powered by aircraft engines.

00:29:18.840 --> 00:29:20.820
Jim Conrad: Was that the
hardest job you ever had?

00:29:21.090 --> 00:29:22.140
John Good: Well, that's a good question.

00:29:23.220 --> 00:29:23.550
No.

00:29:23.760 --> 00:29:26.670
Um, well it might've been, but I
didn't think of it as that hard, you

00:29:26.670 --> 00:29:30.720
know, it wasn't my, what I considered
to be, what I wanted for a career.

00:29:30.930 --> 00:29:34.810
So, but the steel mill was, um,
you know, it's, it's almost like

00:29:34.810 --> 00:29:36.430
you're living in another dimension.

00:29:36.490 --> 00:29:38.800
I just, I figured that wasn't
really what I wanted to do.

00:29:38.800 --> 00:29:42.100
So somehow or another, I made my way out
of the city and I went looking for a job.

00:29:42.310 --> 00:29:47.379
There was, uh, a Welshman, a Welsh
Jew by the name of Tom Mason, who

00:29:47.379 --> 00:29:50.110
was the mayor of Williams Lake,
and he owned the car dealership.

00:29:50.590 --> 00:29:54.070
So I just went in there one day and
asked for a job, and, uh, I was hired.

00:29:54.670 --> 00:29:56.350
Jim Conrad: That leads
me to my next question.

00:29:56.680 --> 00:30:03.460
What ratio of luck to choice has there
been in your life and your career?

00:30:05.260 --> 00:30:09.670
John Good: Yeah, that's a really, really
good topic and it's, it gets better as

00:30:09.730 --> 00:30:14.320
I get older because I believe that luck
has a lot more to do with everything

00:30:14.320 --> 00:30:18.159
that's really important in my own life
than I ever thought that it did before.

00:30:18.490 --> 00:30:20.860
I really appreciate my good luck.

00:30:21.250 --> 00:30:25.000
Jim Conrad: But you made a choice to go
to Williams Lake and made a choice to

00:30:25.000 --> 00:30:31.169
walk into a car dealership and ask for
a job, and they took a chance on you.

00:30:31.770 --> 00:30:32.490
John Good: Well, they did.

00:30:32.700 --> 00:30:33.060
Yeah.

00:30:33.180 --> 00:30:34.560
And it worked out for everybody.

00:30:34.590 --> 00:30:38.310
Uh, I don't think I've ever left
the place where there were ever

00:30:38.310 --> 00:30:40.290
any hard feelings or bad vibes.

00:30:40.350 --> 00:30:44.220
You know, when I started that job
in, in Cranbrook, I knew nothing.

00:30:45.044 --> 00:30:47.235
Even though I came from a
media family, I knew nothing.

00:30:47.594 --> 00:30:51.945
Jim Conrad: So it was a bit into
your bones almost, through osmosis

00:30:51.945 --> 00:30:54.135
you knew a little bit about media.

00:30:54.375 --> 00:30:54.794
John Good: I did.

00:30:54.794 --> 00:30:55.455
Yeah, that's true.

00:30:55.485 --> 00:30:57.945
Jim Conrad: But, but practically
speaking, you had no experience.

00:30:57.945 --> 00:30:58.155
John Good: None.

00:30:58.425 --> 00:31:02.715
I, I had no idea what, what to
do, in front of a microphone.

00:31:02.895 --> 00:31:06.105
Jim Conrad: So getting into radio
and understanding it finally and

00:31:06.280 --> 00:31:10.935
learning about it, was that the bug
that got you hooked into broadcasting?

00:31:11.205 --> 00:31:15.105
John Good: Well, you know, it's, um, I
never went to college, but, you know,

00:31:15.105 --> 00:31:18.074
I'm just thinking that maybe that was a
bit like college would be for people that

00:31:18.074 --> 00:31:23.145
actually went to university because, uh,
it was just a bunch of teenagers like me.

00:31:23.360 --> 00:31:28.725
I just turned 18 and it was really,
it was a great place to start in

00:31:28.725 --> 00:31:32.685
that business for me because, um,
people were generally pretty nice.

00:31:32.685 --> 00:31:35.264
I mean, there were some
people that were resentful.

00:31:35.625 --> 00:31:35.895
Jim Conrad: Oh.

00:31:35.895 --> 00:31:36.764
John Good: Without knowing me.

00:31:36.764 --> 00:31:40.574
Jim Conrad: Yeah, he only got the gig
because he is Bill Good's, uh, son.

00:31:40.995 --> 00:31:42.315
John Good: Or, yeah, something like that.

00:31:42.315 --> 00:31:44.565
Or my brother's brother
or something like that.

00:31:44.565 --> 00:31:45.105
And, and,

00:31:46.065 --> 00:31:47.385
Jim Conrad: He's only
here because of the name.

00:31:47.865 --> 00:31:48.225
John Good: Right.

00:31:48.645 --> 00:31:52.995
So I, I did have to suffer some of
the, um, you know, resentment and

00:31:52.995 --> 00:31:54.865
it, and it was acted out on me.

00:31:55.005 --> 00:31:58.575
You know, there, there were some
hurtful moments, uh, of people

00:31:58.575 --> 00:32:02.385
being cruel and I didn't understand
that because that's not who I am.

00:32:02.685 --> 00:32:04.995
Jim Conrad: Well, no one could
ever accuse broadcasters or

00:32:04.995 --> 00:32:06.915
media people of being insecure.

00:32:08.729 --> 00:32:09.120
John Good: Right.

00:32:10.169 --> 00:32:12.030
Well, I'm right at the
top of the list, right?

00:32:12.600 --> 00:32:16.800
And, but most of the people were
pretty good natured and helpful.

00:32:16.860 --> 00:32:20.699
And, you know, the, the characters that
populated that place, I mean, there

00:32:20.699 --> 00:32:24.600
was, I think his name was Ken White,
an ex-professional hockey player.

00:32:24.600 --> 00:32:25.979
He was the sports director.

00:32:26.159 --> 00:32:29.070
And he would just come in and he'd
be smoking a cigar and, you know,

00:32:29.070 --> 00:32:30.300
it's radio, they can't see you.

00:32:30.449 --> 00:32:33.000
And he'd be in a room like our
control studio here with his

00:32:33.000 --> 00:32:34.860
feet up and reading the sports.

00:32:34.860 --> 00:32:37.860
And, you know, he'd just come in
with five seconds before airtime

00:32:37.860 --> 00:32:41.280
and do, talk about sports for
five or 10 minutes and then leave.

00:32:41.850 --> 00:32:44.250
Jim Conrad: So from
Cranbrook to Prince George?

00:32:44.639 --> 00:32:44.939
John Good: Yeah.

00:32:45.510 --> 00:32:47.729
You might know the name, Paul Carson.

00:32:48.090 --> 00:32:48.750
Jim Conrad: Yes.

00:32:49.110 --> 00:32:51.360
A sports broadcaster here
in Vancouver for many years.

00:32:51.389 --> 00:32:51.629
John Good: Yep.

00:32:51.780 --> 00:32:55.500
And Paul was, uh, the morning
man at that radio station.

00:32:57.479 --> 00:33:00.000
Just thinking about it,
we lived in a motel.

00:33:03.439 --> 00:33:04.280
Jim Conrad: Well that's convenient.

00:33:04.310 --> 00:33:04.699
John Good: Yeah.

00:33:04.699 --> 00:33:07.219
A motel and there was a trailer park.

00:33:07.490 --> 00:33:11.689
I mean, the community was, this
place was full of loggers and miners

00:33:11.780 --> 00:33:15.199
and guys that worked on, you know,
electrical high wires, putting in the

00:33:15.199 --> 00:33:17.659
infrastructure, a lot of drinking.

00:33:17.689 --> 00:33:19.189
There was a fights in the pub.

00:33:19.189 --> 00:33:21.169
It was, you know, that was a small town.

00:33:21.570 --> 00:33:27.629
Jim Conrad: So then from radio, you found
a gig back on the coast in Victoria?

00:33:27.659 --> 00:33:29.459
John Good: Well, very quick history.

00:33:29.520 --> 00:33:31.320
Cranbrook, I, I was ambitious.

00:33:31.320 --> 00:33:33.990
I wanted to leave there and get
a better job and everybody wants

00:33:33.990 --> 00:33:35.370
to get back to the big smoke.

00:33:35.610 --> 00:33:39.750
In BC it's Vancouver or
Toronto, you know, Canadian.

00:33:39.780 --> 00:33:43.260
And so I sent out tapes and did all
the things that everybody did, and I

00:33:43.260 --> 00:33:44.639
didn't stay in one place for very long.

00:33:44.639 --> 00:33:46.709
So I went from Cranbrook to
Prince George, where John

00:33:46.719 --> 00:33:48.060
Ashbridge was the news director.

00:33:48.209 --> 00:33:49.679
He hired me from there.

00:33:49.679 --> 00:33:51.570
I went to CJVI in Victoria.

00:33:52.050 --> 00:33:55.379
Jim Conrad: And that's where you
roomed with another, uh, sports

00:33:55.379 --> 00:33:59.360
broadcasting icon from Vancouver,
the late great, Neil Macrae.

00:33:59.360 --> 00:33:59.929
John Good: Neil Macrae.

00:34:00.000 --> 00:34:00.240
Yeah.

00:34:00.240 --> 00:34:01.800
Neil and I were roommates in Victoria.

00:34:02.280 --> 00:34:03.990
We had a small house in, in Oak Bay.

00:34:04.050 --> 00:34:04.830
Jim Conrad: What was that like?

00:34:04.889 --> 00:34:05.939
John Good: We had two dogs.

00:34:06.405 --> 00:34:09.284
Fred and Barney and, uh, Neil was a slob.

00:34:11.254 --> 00:34:13.514
Neil was a great guy,
and he had a big heart.

00:34:13.605 --> 00:34:15.885
And anybody that doesn't know
him might not know that, but

00:34:15.885 --> 00:34:17.264
he was a terrific person.

00:34:17.595 --> 00:34:19.755
We were very good friends for many years.

00:34:19.935 --> 00:34:24.975
So I went from Victoria to CJOR because
I had worked as a copy boy somewhere

00:34:24.975 --> 00:34:26.475
along the line before the steel mill.

00:34:26.835 --> 00:34:29.115
I had worked at The Sun, part-time.

00:34:29.205 --> 00:34:30.105
Jim Conrad: Newspaper, Sun.

00:34:30.105 --> 00:34:30.645
In Vancouver.

00:34:30.645 --> 00:34:30.735
John Good: Yes.

00:34:30.735 --> 00:34:34.185
For Erwin Swangard, who was
the managing editor of The Sun.

00:34:35.250 --> 00:34:39.000
so Erwin by that time had been, had
some falling out with Pacific Press

00:34:39.000 --> 00:34:40.500
or South or whoever owned at the time.

00:34:40.740 --> 00:34:44.670
And, uh, he went to work for
Jimmy Patterson who owned CJOR.

00:34:44.820 --> 00:34:48.240
And I, was hired there
as sports broadcaster.

00:34:48.510 --> 00:34:49.910
Jim Conrad: At CJOR in 1960.

00:34:51.790 --> 00:34:53.070
John Good: 70, maybe

00:34:53.190 --> 00:34:53.880
Jim Conrad: 1970.

00:34:53.880 --> 00:34:54.150
John Good: Yeah.

00:34:54.510 --> 00:34:55.335
71 maybe.

00:34:55.715 --> 00:34:58.980
Jim Conrad: And so that began
your, you went sort of from being

00:34:58.980 --> 00:35:01.200
a DJ to getting into sports.

00:35:01.200 --> 00:35:01.860
John Good: Sports.

00:35:01.860 --> 00:35:01.920
Yeah.

00:35:02.100 --> 00:35:08.520
I was presented an opportunity to audition
for a CBC replacement television job here.

00:35:09.150 --> 00:35:13.470
And I didn't get the job, but somebody
in Toronto saw the tape and I was

00:35:13.470 --> 00:35:14.900
offered a job in Toronto for CBC.

00:35:15.060 --> 00:35:16.920
Jim Conrad: CBC sports Toronto.

00:35:16.980 --> 00:35:17.280
John Good: Right.

00:35:17.460 --> 00:35:20.220
Jim Conrad: So you're 20 years
old, you were just working in,

00:35:20.250 --> 00:35:22.230
uh, as a sports reporter for OR.

00:35:22.260 --> 00:35:22.500
John Good: Right.

00:35:22.650 --> 00:35:26.400
Jim Conrad: Somebody sees your
television audition tape and decides

00:35:26.970 --> 00:35:29.730
that's the guy that we want on TV.

00:35:29.880 --> 00:35:33.990
Standing up in the microphone
with the famous CBC jacket

00:35:34.290 --> 00:35:36.210
doing commentary on sports.

00:35:36.540 --> 00:35:37.950
John Good: Well, sports reporting.

00:35:37.950 --> 00:35:38.610
Jim Conrad: Sports reporting.

00:35:38.610 --> 00:35:38.670
John Good: Yeah.

00:35:38.700 --> 00:35:40.620
And including anchoring the sports.

00:35:40.770 --> 00:35:43.650
And so I did not expect
to get a job offer.

00:35:43.710 --> 00:35:46.800
I was told I didn't get
the job in Vancouver.

00:35:46.890 --> 00:35:48.000
And so I forgot about it.

00:35:48.000 --> 00:35:51.120
And then a few days later I
got a phone call from a guy by

00:35:51.120 --> 00:35:52.650
the name of George Retzlaff.

00:35:53.070 --> 00:35:57.300
George was, famously known he was
head of sports in Toronto, but he

00:35:57.300 --> 00:36:01.200
was famously known for inventing,
um, slow motion replay in hockey.

00:36:01.500 --> 00:36:01.920
Jim Conrad: Wow.

00:36:02.220 --> 00:36:06.300
John Good: And he had also devised the
camera work, the way that the cameras

00:36:06.300 --> 00:36:08.880
operate in hockey games at ice level.

00:36:09.390 --> 00:36:11.250
Jim Conrad: Revolutionizing
coverage of hockey.

00:36:11.250 --> 00:36:11.310
John Good: Yeah.

00:36:11.310 --> 00:36:15.780
He was a brilliant guy, but he was also
an alcoholic and a difficult personality.

00:36:16.140 --> 00:36:18.690
Uh, but he liked me and
he wanted to hire me.

00:36:18.690 --> 00:36:21.870
So it's funny because I went to my
brother and I went to my father.

00:36:21.870 --> 00:36:24.030
I said, I've been offered
this job in Toronto.

00:36:24.435 --> 00:36:25.005
Jim Conrad: Television.

00:36:25.035 --> 00:36:25.755
John Good: Right.

00:36:25.905 --> 00:36:29.415
And here's the money and
here's the opportunity.

00:36:29.565 --> 00:36:30.345
And the money was good.

00:36:30.615 --> 00:36:34.425
It was quite a bit more than I
would probably have made staying

00:36:34.425 --> 00:36:36.015
at that radio job in five years.

00:36:36.495 --> 00:36:39.705
I asked them their advice and both
of them said, no, don't do it.

00:36:40.155 --> 00:36:45.885
So I immediately said yes, because
I couldn't resist the allure of,

00:36:45.885 --> 00:36:47.745
uh, of Toronto for one thing.

00:36:47.895 --> 00:36:49.335
Jim Conrad: Now, why do
you think they said no?

00:36:49.485 --> 00:36:54.135
John Good: Well, I think they probably
correctly surmised that I wasn't really

00:36:54.135 --> 00:36:56.925
ready for prime time and they were right.

00:36:59.385 --> 00:37:02.255
So I went to Toronto
and, and went to hell.

00:37:03.365 --> 00:37:04.495
I had to visit Hell.

00:37:04.515 --> 00:37:04.725
Jim Conrad: Yeah.

00:37:04.725 --> 00:37:08.655
You, you were on the air and
it wasn't a good experience.

00:37:08.955 --> 00:37:11.115
Could you classify it as a failure?

00:37:11.775 --> 00:37:14.055
John Good: Uh, well it
was a, a work in progress.

00:37:14.055 --> 00:37:15.105
Jim Conrad: It was a learning experience.

00:37:15.105 --> 00:37:15.285
John Good: Yeah.

00:37:15.345 --> 00:37:16.275
Well, here's what happened.

00:37:16.275 --> 00:37:17.295
I arrived in Toronto.

00:37:17.385 --> 00:37:22.095
They had arranged for me, this is actually
a good side story, because there was a

00:37:22.125 --> 00:37:29.345
very fancy high-end motor hotel, which
is like a motel, but really advanced.

00:37:29.345 --> 00:37:31.935
And up, upscale, um, at that time.

00:37:31.935 --> 00:37:34.845
And nobody had ever heard of it
out here, but it was start, a

00:37:34.845 --> 00:37:38.715
business was started in Toronto by
a guy by the name of Isador Sharp.

00:37:39.045 --> 00:37:41.025
And it was the Four Seasons first hotel.

00:37:41.355 --> 00:37:41.655
Jim Conrad: Wow.

00:37:41.985 --> 00:37:46.155
John Good: With a fancy dining room
and elaborate, uh, accessories.

00:37:46.155 --> 00:37:47.235
And the hotel was beautiful.

00:37:47.235 --> 00:37:50.235
And so they put me up there for
a week and I had to start work

00:37:50.235 --> 00:37:52.275
right away, basically the next day.

00:37:52.515 --> 00:37:56.295
So I went in and, I was, uh,
kind of shown around a bit.

00:37:56.865 --> 00:37:58.305
A desk I could occupy.

00:37:58.305 --> 00:38:00.675
And then I was shown where the
studio, I'd never been except

00:38:00.675 --> 00:38:02.805
for the audition in a TV studio.

00:38:02.805 --> 00:38:03.765
They didn't know this.

00:38:04.035 --> 00:38:05.265
I don't think anybody knew this.

00:38:05.265 --> 00:38:08.445
Jim Conrad: So, and no one
bothered to ask you, John, do you

00:38:08.445 --> 00:38:09.885
have any television experience?

00:38:09.915 --> 00:38:10.065
John Good: No.

00:38:10.065 --> 00:38:10.935
No one asked me that.

00:38:11.055 --> 00:38:12.105
They assumed that I did.

00:38:12.345 --> 00:38:13.275
Jim Conrad: Because you made an audition.

00:38:13.485 --> 00:38:13.875
John Good: Right.

00:38:14.325 --> 00:38:17.265
And, uh, they, I came from Vancouver,
so they didn't have any idea

00:38:17.265 --> 00:38:18.555
what I'd been doing in Vancouver.

00:38:18.555 --> 00:38:20.715
For all they knew i'd been on
TV for five years over there.

00:38:21.285 --> 00:38:25.455
And so I have to go down to the studio
and I'm, you know, shown where I'm gonna

00:38:25.455 --> 00:38:30.855
sit and sitting beside me or in the seat
next to me is Lloyd Robertson, who is

00:38:30.855 --> 00:38:34.965
famous out here for doing the national in
those days at 11 or 10 o'clock at night.

00:38:34.965 --> 00:38:38.715
But what most people out here didn't
know is that Lloyd did the six o'clock

00:38:38.715 --> 00:38:41.145
CBLT TV news in Toronto every day.

00:38:41.325 --> 00:38:45.045
And then he did the national at night and
he did other things too, but great guy.

00:38:45.495 --> 00:38:48.585
So I'm sitting next to him and
I'm had my script, which was,

00:38:48.585 --> 00:38:49.845
I had been writing for radio.

00:38:50.759 --> 00:38:51.870
And not for television.

00:38:52.200 --> 00:38:54.450
So they were expecting
six or eight minutes.

00:38:54.450 --> 00:38:58.259
I gave them like a minute
and a half or two minutes.

00:38:58.410 --> 00:39:00.299
And so it was, it was awkward.

00:39:00.690 --> 00:39:02.214
A lot of ad-libbing for a few minutes and,

00:39:02.234 --> 00:39:02.455
Jim Conrad: Yes.

00:39:02.730 --> 00:39:03.779
John Good: And the lights are,

00:39:04.560 --> 00:39:05.339
Jim Conrad: The lights are hot.

00:39:05.339 --> 00:39:05.759
John Good: It's hot.

00:39:05.850 --> 00:39:06.120
Yeah.

00:39:06.150 --> 00:39:06.870
You're at the beach.

00:39:07.020 --> 00:39:10.080
Jim Conrad: So television,
Toronto, you're 20 years old.

00:39:10.290 --> 00:39:13.560
That gig didn't last
long because of politics?

00:39:13.589 --> 00:39:15.890
John Good: Well, it, it
lasted, it lasted a few years.

00:39:15.950 --> 00:39:19.170
But what happened there was I
had a similar experience with the

00:39:19.170 --> 00:39:21.330
resentments from other people, right?

00:39:21.330 --> 00:39:23.310
Because I came out of Vancouver.

00:39:23.759 --> 00:39:24.600
Who does this guy,

00:39:24.830 --> 00:39:25.950
Jim Conrad: Hotshot young kid.

00:39:25.950 --> 00:39:26.890
Sports reporter.

00:39:26.910 --> 00:39:27.060
John Good: Yeah.

00:39:27.060 --> 00:39:28.379
Really doesn't know much.

00:39:28.500 --> 00:39:29.940
I mean, I did a good job.

00:39:30.350 --> 00:39:31.050
On the air.

00:39:31.110 --> 00:39:35.145
But I was very inexperienced in
the, certainly any of the technical

00:39:35.145 --> 00:39:39.465
stuff, videotape, you know, how to
do, how to even put stuff together.

00:39:39.765 --> 00:39:41.235
So I got the hang of it.

00:39:41.355 --> 00:39:44.955
But there was underlying resentments
and I had to deal with that.

00:39:45.525 --> 00:39:49.045
I was making good money, I was doing
my job, but I was really young.

00:39:49.605 --> 00:39:55.815
Like the next youngest guy in sports
in Canada on CBC was probably 35.

00:39:56.235 --> 00:39:59.055
That would be like Tom McKee
and there was Don Chevrier and

00:39:59.325 --> 00:40:00.555
Whitman and all these guys.

00:40:00.555 --> 00:40:03.555
And I, we ended up working with
all these guys over the years, but

00:40:03.850 --> 00:40:06.975
it was kind of lonely in Toronto,
you know, it was a big city.

00:40:07.185 --> 00:40:09.435
Really big city from
what I'd been used to.

00:40:09.435 --> 00:40:11.415
Jim Conrad: And when did
the next job offer come?

00:40:11.445 --> 00:40:14.985
John Good: So we kind, I got kind of
disillusioned in Toronto and, uh, one of

00:40:14.985 --> 00:40:20.295
the executives, one of the producers of
that suppertime show, Brynn Matthews is

00:40:20.295 --> 00:40:25.365
his name, he was moving back to Ottawa
to work for a CTV affiliate, CGOH.

00:40:25.635 --> 00:40:26.595
And he really liked me.

00:40:27.225 --> 00:40:30.135
And, uh, I think he could see that
I was, you know, having trouble

00:40:30.645 --> 00:40:33.855
with these guys in Toronto and
he, and he offered me a job.

00:40:34.200 --> 00:40:36.089
And it was a CTV affiliate.

00:40:36.450 --> 00:40:42.149
And so I accepted it and quit,
resigned, went up to Ottawa and,

00:40:42.180 --> 00:40:45.240
uh, one of the best experiences
of my life, it was life altering.

00:40:45.720 --> 00:40:49.319
Jim Conrad: So you're the evening
sports anchor at CJOH in Ottawa.

00:40:49.710 --> 00:40:50.129
John Good: Yeah.

00:40:50.129 --> 00:40:52.770
I went in there and there were,
uh, there's a fellow by the

00:40:52.770 --> 00:40:56.970
name of Max Keeping who was a
renowned human, humanitarian.

00:40:56.970 --> 00:40:58.049
He was a news guy.

00:40:58.740 --> 00:41:00.089
And, Max befriended me.

00:41:00.540 --> 00:41:04.140
I got there in early fall and
it was my birthday coming up.

00:41:04.140 --> 00:41:09.839
And Max was also a, a Newfie
who liked his rum and his beer

00:41:10.109 --> 00:41:12.439
and his parties every day.

00:41:12.910 --> 00:41:16.890
And he was a terrific journalist,
a really amazing human being.

00:41:16.890 --> 00:41:20.549
So the first thing that he did was he was,
he announced to everyone in Ottawa that

00:41:20.549 --> 00:41:25.859
there would be an international Johnny
B Good night at Molly McGuire's Pub.

00:41:26.640 --> 00:41:28.660
Jim Conrad: And your,
your middle initial is B.

00:41:28.785 --> 00:41:29.220
John Good: It is.

00:41:29.250 --> 00:41:29.640
Jim Conrad: Yes.

00:41:29.730 --> 00:41:31.039
John Good: So, I mean, I
had to grow up with that.

00:41:31.939 --> 00:41:34.395
It was no fun when I was
10, but it works for me now.

00:41:35.685 --> 00:41:37.155
Jim Conrad: Johnny B Good night in Ottawa.

00:41:37.475 --> 00:41:38.904
John Good: At Molly McGuires.

00:41:38.905 --> 00:41:40.095
And, and a lot of people showed up.

00:41:40.095 --> 00:41:44.055
It was a great party and that's
how I was introduced to Ottawa and

00:41:44.055 --> 00:41:47.055
I got into the community a little
bit up there and really enjoyed it.

00:41:47.055 --> 00:41:49.725
By that time, I knew a little
about how to operate on television.

00:41:50.055 --> 00:41:53.055
Uh, my partner was a guy named
Brian Smith, who was an ex hockey

00:41:53.055 --> 00:41:56.925
player, and Max was there and
there were a lot of young people.

00:41:57.285 --> 00:42:01.035
By the time I got to Ottawa,
I was only 24 and I'd had four

00:42:01.035 --> 00:42:02.025
or five years in television.

00:42:02.895 --> 00:42:05.895
Jim Conrad: So now
Ottawa back to Vancouver?

00:42:06.495 --> 00:42:10.980
John Good: So after a few years in Ottawa,
not very many, two or three, I was,

00:42:10.980 --> 00:42:12.690
uh, getting a little tired of the cold.

00:42:13.140 --> 00:42:16.710
It was minus 20 just a bit
too long, 25, 30 sometimes.

00:42:17.430 --> 00:42:19.740
Ottawa's even that much
colder than Toronto.

00:42:20.050 --> 00:42:24.150
I was getting sick of the winter, so I
came back to Vancouver for a little break.

00:42:24.360 --> 00:42:25.230
It was March.

00:42:25.290 --> 00:42:26.820
My brother picked me up at the airport.

00:42:27.090 --> 00:42:28.710
It was minus 20 in Ottawa.

00:42:28.950 --> 00:42:29.910
Flew to Vancouver.

00:42:29.940 --> 00:42:33.090
We're driving down Granville,
about 16th and Granville.

00:42:33.525 --> 00:42:38.115
The daffodils are out and there's a
guy jogging with his dog in his shorts

00:42:38.445 --> 00:42:39.885
and that's where I made the decision.

00:42:41.595 --> 00:42:46.035
Jim Conrad: As a lot of expatriates do,
they go away, but they end up coming back.

00:42:46.155 --> 00:42:48.645
John Good: So, uh, guess
what's happening in Vancouver?

00:42:48.645 --> 00:42:50.775
Daryl Duke and Norman
Klenman are starting out.

00:42:51.345 --> 00:42:55.935
and Bill Bellman is an investor, had
created Western Approaches, which was,

00:42:55.965 --> 00:43:00.705
uh, developing CKV Television and the
White Caps were trying to make a name for

00:43:00.705 --> 00:43:02.295
themselves here as well at the same time.

00:43:02.475 --> 00:43:06.705
So I was able to engineer, Daryl wanted
me to come here and help him launch this

00:43:06.705 --> 00:43:08.895
TV station and be one of the sports guys.

00:43:08.925 --> 00:43:15.795
He had hired a former ABC Vancouverite,
but an ABC veteran sports producer

00:43:15.795 --> 00:43:17.725
by the name of Lorne Hassan.

00:43:17.805 --> 00:43:20.955
Lorne had crashed and burned in New York.

00:43:21.015 --> 00:43:23.535
He used to be the producer
of Wide World of Sports.

00:43:24.045 --> 00:43:30.915
Daryl found him working in a dry
cleaners in Vancouver and hired

00:43:30.915 --> 00:43:35.845
him because he believed in him and
he was right because it was Lorne

00:43:36.165 --> 00:43:37.725
that really developed sports page.

00:43:38.055 --> 00:43:41.655
Jim Conrad: So you were at the, at the
very beginning of what became a kind of

00:43:41.655 --> 00:43:45.405
an institution in Vancouver sports for
quite a while, which was Sports Page.

00:43:45.405 --> 00:43:46.095
John Good: Yeah, that's right.

00:43:46.095 --> 00:43:49.815
I was the first host, first
night, September 5th, 1977.

00:43:49.965 --> 00:43:53.565
Jim Conrad: But you were also anchoring
the CKVU evening news as well?

00:43:53.595 --> 00:43:54.315
John Good: That was after.

00:43:54.375 --> 00:43:54.645
Jim Conrad: Okay.

00:43:54.645 --> 00:43:59.955
John Good: I did the sports, we did
Sports Page for two years, 77, 78, and by

00:43:59.955 --> 00:44:03.390
1979 I had actually created First News.

00:44:03.870 --> 00:44:06.390
I wanted to, we didn't
have a news program.

00:44:06.390 --> 00:44:10.520
We had The Vancouver Show with Mike Winlaw
and Pia Shandel and Laurier LaPierre.

00:44:10.650 --> 00:44:11.340
The Frenchman.

00:44:11.430 --> 00:44:12.090
Yeah, he was great.

00:44:12.300 --> 00:44:16.290
Uh, we're both Scorpios and he was an
intense guy, but we had a lot of fun.

00:44:16.710 --> 00:44:18.560
He was a big deal out, from out East.

00:44:18.710 --> 00:44:23.250
And, and he was a really qualified
journalist and really erudite,

00:44:23.280 --> 00:44:24.870
you know, amazing person.

00:44:24.930 --> 00:44:27.570
So it was, uh, Pia was there
and it was a lot of fun.

00:44:27.630 --> 00:44:31.520
And, you know, Daryl would bark
orders from up above in the

00:44:31.520 --> 00:44:34.609
ivory tower and everybody was
scurrying, running and hiding.

00:44:35.149 --> 00:44:37.790
But I got along really well with
Daryl and they really liked what

00:44:37.790 --> 00:44:39.049
the sports department was doing.

00:44:39.049 --> 00:44:43.700
So Lorne cleaned himself up and came
in and organized this whole thing

00:44:43.700 --> 00:44:45.589
and developed this legendary show.

00:44:45.950 --> 00:44:49.189
Jim Conrad: But you then convinced
Daryl and the powers that be that

00:44:49.189 --> 00:44:50.899
they needed an evening news show.

00:44:50.899 --> 00:44:51.169
John Good: Right.

00:44:51.470 --> 00:44:52.490
Jim Conrad: First News.

00:44:52.700 --> 00:44:53.480
And you were the anchor.

00:44:54.500 --> 00:44:56.540
John Good: I was, I was alone
doing it for about a year.

00:44:56.544 --> 00:44:56.674
Jim Conrad: Yeah.

00:44:56.810 --> 00:44:59.569
John Good: And then Daryl got the
idea that he wanted to have a,

00:44:59.629 --> 00:45:01.549
me to have a female co-anchor.

00:45:01.700 --> 00:45:05.250
So, uh, there was a very young
reporter named Joanna Piros.

00:45:05.299 --> 00:45:05.810
Jim Conrad: That's right.

00:45:06.200 --> 00:45:10.370
John Good: And Joanna and I did the news
together for as long as I continued to

00:45:10.370 --> 00:45:14.149
stay at the station, which was probably
another year and a half or two years.

00:45:14.720 --> 00:45:16.129
And she stayed and I left.

00:45:16.129 --> 00:45:17.000
And she was great.

00:45:17.000 --> 00:45:18.799
And we were, we became very good friends.

00:45:19.009 --> 00:45:23.899
Jim Conrad: So you decided to
get out of television and into

00:45:23.990 --> 00:45:25.459
the corporate video world.

00:45:25.910 --> 00:45:29.390
Was that a luck, something
lucky, or was that a choice?

00:45:30.660 --> 00:45:32.384
John Good: Uh, well, again,

00:45:32.444 --> 00:45:33.015
Jim Conrad: A bit of both.

00:45:33.075 --> 00:45:37.065
John Good: I was, I had been married
in Florida, but that marriage wasn't,

00:45:37.125 --> 00:45:41.325
wasn't working out too well so I was
getting a divorce and I met somebody else

00:45:41.325 --> 00:45:46.785
and I married, Caroline and we, all her
brothers were stockbrokers or traders.

00:45:46.845 --> 00:45:47.654
Jim Conrad: Howe street traders.

00:45:48.735 --> 00:45:53.025
John Good: She was the very much younger
daughter of a family of mostly older boys.

00:45:53.654 --> 00:45:56.384
She was quite mature and
a bit younger than me.

00:45:56.955 --> 00:46:00.705
So we got married and I started,
you know, getting involved in some

00:46:00.705 --> 00:46:04.245
trading on the brokerage side while
I was still working in television.

00:46:04.335 --> 00:46:10.904
And then I was approached by some
people in, in the resource business.

00:46:10.995 --> 00:46:14.085
With my television exposure I was
getting some attention downtown.

00:46:14.085 --> 00:46:15.045
I joined a health club there.

00:46:15.045 --> 00:46:16.455
I got to know some of the promoters.

00:46:16.605 --> 00:46:17.235
Jim Conrad: Getting a rep.

00:46:18.165 --> 00:46:20.325
John Good: Making friends,
yeah, in the business community.

00:46:20.355 --> 00:46:25.424
But because of my wife's family
of brokers, I was getting closer

00:46:25.424 --> 00:46:26.865
to some of these financial guys.

00:46:26.895 --> 00:46:30.944
And so, um, I recognized that there was a,

00:46:31.245 --> 00:46:31.995
Jim Conrad: Opportunity.

00:46:32.025 --> 00:46:32.384
John Good: Yeah.

00:46:32.475 --> 00:46:35.174
Uh, but there was a disconnect between
the business world and the media.

00:46:35.524 --> 00:46:39.134
Howe Street was misunderstood, I
thought, and so did the business people.

00:46:39.375 --> 00:46:42.495
And it, it turned out that the
media just didn't really understand

00:46:42.495 --> 00:46:43.545
what was going on down here.

00:46:43.545 --> 00:46:48.495
And it's funny because, um, I think a
lot of media guys in those days, I found

00:46:48.495 --> 00:46:52.245
this in the sports world as well, if they
don't understand something, they have a

00:46:52.245 --> 00:46:54.135
tendency to ignore it or criticize it.

00:46:54.285 --> 00:46:57.525
That helped me help I promoted
the soccer team as well.

00:46:57.645 --> 00:46:57.885
Jim Conrad: Right.

00:46:58.045 --> 00:46:58.665
The White Caps.

00:46:58.665 --> 00:46:58.905
John Good: Yeah.

00:46:59.325 --> 00:47:03.555
That's how I, I helped them succeed
by developing a format of inter

00:47:03.585 --> 00:47:05.355
of, I had all the games taped.

00:47:05.385 --> 00:47:07.395
'Cause I don't know whether I
mentioned, but I went to work for the

00:47:07.395 --> 00:47:10.755
White Caps and the TV station, right,
when I engineered that move out here

00:47:10.755 --> 00:47:13.065
because they couldn't afford to pay
me when I was getting in Toronto.

00:47:13.155 --> 00:47:16.035
Jim Conrad: And the White Caps
weren't, didn't have a TV deal.

00:47:16.065 --> 00:47:16.395
John Good: No.

00:47:16.545 --> 00:47:20.785
Until Lorne and I started to develop a
really good relationship with the soccor

00:47:20.805 --> 00:47:22.215
team and then we started airing games.

00:47:22.305 --> 00:47:25.875
So then what I wanna say about
promoting the soccer team, 'cause I

00:47:25.875 --> 00:47:30.675
was, I was a director of the soccer
team and a public relations director

00:47:30.675 --> 00:47:34.365
while I was doing the sports at
CKVU, they both paid me a salary.

00:47:34.755 --> 00:47:35.835
I had other benefits.

00:47:35.925 --> 00:47:38.115
As I said, they couldn't pay me
what I was getting in Toronto,

00:47:38.115 --> 00:47:39.105
but I wanted to be here.

00:47:39.135 --> 00:47:42.705
So it was really a friendly deal
between both entities, but the soccer

00:47:42.705 --> 00:47:46.275
team weren't getting any crowds and
they weren't even playing that well,

00:47:46.275 --> 00:47:48.525
but they were working really hard.

00:47:49.275 --> 00:47:51.465
They were great people,
management of that team.

00:47:51.585 --> 00:47:55.785
And so I knew all the media guys
because of my, you know, history

00:47:55.785 --> 00:47:57.615
in sports and my contacts.

00:47:57.615 --> 00:48:02.175
So I held weekly press
conferences at Empire Stadium.

00:48:02.645 --> 00:48:06.365
I'd invite 'cause, because I
invited them 'cause I knew them.

00:48:06.365 --> 00:48:11.134
They would come and I'd have the staff
and players of the soccer team be there.

00:48:11.524 --> 00:48:12.634
They got to know these guys.

00:48:13.384 --> 00:48:16.714
I videotaped the games and I'd have
the coaches and the players talk

00:48:16.714 --> 00:48:18.154
about things that, you know, so,

00:48:18.214 --> 00:48:19.535
Jim Conrad: So you were creating content?

00:48:19.535 --> 00:48:21.095
John Good: We were helping
educate these sports guys.

00:48:21.095 --> 00:48:23.884
We were helping educate the Canadian guys.

00:48:23.884 --> 00:48:27.754
There were a few European reporters,
you know, German guy, British guy,

00:48:27.845 --> 00:48:31.205
and they were giving a lot of press,
but they had a limited audience.

00:48:31.205 --> 00:48:35.194
So pretty soon the rest of the media,
CTV and all the other stations,

00:48:35.194 --> 00:48:37.535
radio, then the team started winning.

00:48:37.774 --> 00:48:40.384
But the press box was full
by the end of that season.

00:48:40.384 --> 00:48:40.654
Jim Conrad: Yeah.

00:48:40.714 --> 00:48:43.955
John Good: And then the team was
winning and the fans were coming in

00:48:44.165 --> 00:48:45.665
a year and a half later or something.

00:48:45.665 --> 00:48:47.089
Jim Conrad: They won the,
they won the championship.

00:48:47.089 --> 00:48:48.274
John Good: They beat the New York Cosmos.

00:48:48.274 --> 00:48:48.515
Yeah.

00:48:48.754 --> 00:48:52.234
First championship team in Vancouver,
you know, since the 64 Lions.

00:48:52.444 --> 00:48:56.524
Jim Conrad: The transition then
to pivot to strictly business.

00:48:56.825 --> 00:48:59.705
John Good: VHS and Beta Max
were coming to boardrooms.

00:48:59.735 --> 00:49:03.575
Companies were promoting their images
with, with videos and things like this.

00:49:03.575 --> 00:49:03.935
So I,

00:49:03.995 --> 00:49:06.845
Jim Conrad: So the corporate
video became a thing.

00:49:07.025 --> 00:49:09.635
John Good: And so I had a
pretty good business running.

00:49:09.935 --> 00:49:11.195
I had a really good product.

00:49:11.375 --> 00:49:14.765
I hired the best technical people
and camera people, and I used the

00:49:14.915 --> 00:49:16.775
best equipment from the TV world.

00:49:16.895 --> 00:49:21.905
And so I, I made a really good product
and I got a really good price for it.

00:49:22.385 --> 00:49:26.555
And we helped these companies raise a
lot of money, uh, because they take these

00:49:26.555 --> 00:49:30.425
tools and go overseas and they go see
bankers and brokers in different countries

00:49:30.425 --> 00:49:31.715
and they raise money, a lot of money.

00:49:32.165 --> 00:49:34.115
And then I had an idea for a TV show.

00:49:34.565 --> 00:49:35.585
Jim Conrad: And the TV show was?

00:49:35.625 --> 00:49:36.145
John Good: Venture.

00:49:37.175 --> 00:49:41.135
Which I started as Venture Capital
and then sold it to CBC two years

00:49:41.135 --> 00:49:43.625
later because it was too much work
and I couldn't make any money.

00:49:43.895 --> 00:49:47.555
But they liked the concept and then it
ran for 20 years as Venture, I think.

00:49:47.925 --> 00:49:50.775
Jim Conrad: So then the transition
then getting out of the corporate

00:49:50.775 --> 00:49:54.915
video world and just becoming an
investor because you started to

00:49:54.915 --> 00:49:57.555
know people understood the business.

00:49:57.675 --> 00:50:01.275
Would you say that you had
a knack for making a deal?

00:50:01.395 --> 00:50:05.025
John Good: Well, I found that I had
a knack for being a good salesman

00:50:05.175 --> 00:50:07.965
when I had to commercialize my skill.

00:50:08.505 --> 00:50:12.825
Murray Pezim was one of my clients,
and I charged him, I forget what it

00:50:12.825 --> 00:50:18.014
was, 50 or a hundred grand for this,
but they made a discovery at Hemlo.

00:50:18.015 --> 00:50:18.765
It was a big deal.

00:50:19.365 --> 00:50:23.925
And so I had, I had done all that
whole documentary, and when he paid me

00:50:23.925 --> 00:50:29.175
the last installment on the contract,
he lifted his glasses up onto his

00:50:29.175 --> 00:50:32.865
forehead and he had his accountant come
in to write me a check for 50 grand.

00:50:33.735 --> 00:50:35.835
And he said, I, I'm thinking what's wrong.

00:50:36.105 --> 00:50:37.365
I didn't know if I'm gonna get the money.

00:50:37.605 --> 00:50:42.375
And he said, uh, if you're taking
$50,000 bills out of my back

00:50:42.375 --> 00:50:44.715
pocket I want you working for me.

00:50:45.555 --> 00:50:47.565
So he hired me.

00:50:47.685 --> 00:50:48.195
Jim Conrad: He hired you.

00:50:48.735 --> 00:50:48.885
John Good: Yeah.

00:50:48.915 --> 00:50:51.105
So then I got into the
finance end of the market.

00:50:51.465 --> 00:50:53.355
Jim Conrad: And have you
been doing that ever since?

00:50:53.535 --> 00:50:54.255
John Good: Pretty much.

00:50:54.675 --> 00:50:57.855
I found I had a knack for a
certain part of the business

00:50:57.855 --> 00:51:00.045
that was really specialized.

00:51:00.195 --> 00:51:02.985
And I think this might have
something to do going all the way

00:51:02.985 --> 00:51:05.805
back to my dyslexic personality.

00:51:06.285 --> 00:51:11.115
And that is making markets in
stocks because it's, um, it's

00:51:11.115 --> 00:51:12.975
kind of an abstract function.

00:51:13.095 --> 00:51:17.505
Jim Conrad: So describe, pull that
apart for me, making markets in stocks.

00:51:18.165 --> 00:51:21.915
John Good: Well, you've got buyers and
sellers and in a liquid market you've got

00:51:21.915 --> 00:51:28.695
a lot of buyers and sellers and you have
to have, um, a sense of how to coordinate.

00:51:28.875 --> 00:51:31.545
It's called an orderly
market for the securities.

00:51:31.695 --> 00:51:34.755
So it's one of those things I
discovered I had accidentally

00:51:34.755 --> 00:51:39.045
because I, I had to do it one day for
somebody and it came naturally to me.

00:51:39.465 --> 00:51:40.425
Jim Conrad: So there was the luck.

00:51:40.965 --> 00:51:41.235
John Good: Yeah.

00:51:41.235 --> 00:51:43.075
Jim Conrad: And then there
was the discovery that, hey,

00:51:43.075 --> 00:51:44.565
I've got the knack at this.

00:51:44.865 --> 00:51:47.325
So you always have buyers
and you always have sellers.

00:51:47.325 --> 00:51:47.715
John Good: No, you don't.

00:51:49.305 --> 00:51:50.085
Jim Conrad: But they, but they both,

00:51:50.085 --> 00:51:50.955
John Good: You always have sellers.

00:51:51.165 --> 00:51:52.455
Jim Conrad: They both need each other.

00:51:52.665 --> 00:51:53.915
John Good: So I have an inventory.

00:51:54.475 --> 00:51:56.605
And I supply both sides.

00:51:56.625 --> 00:51:59.895
I've have a inventory of stock
and I have an inventory of cash.

00:52:00.075 --> 00:52:05.145
Jim Conrad: What have you learned in
working in financial markets in London?

00:52:05.415 --> 00:52:08.835
You've been in New York, you've been
in Los Angeles, you've been in Toronto,

00:52:09.105 --> 00:52:10.875
you've been here all over the world.

00:52:11.025 --> 00:52:15.795
Is there a common thread, something that
you've learned in order to be successful?

00:52:17.425 --> 00:52:18.055
John Good: Be careful.

00:52:18.415 --> 00:52:19.315
Jim Conrad: Be careful.

00:52:19.525 --> 00:52:20.634
Do your due diligence.

00:52:21.085 --> 00:52:22.495
John Good: Well, as much as you can.

00:52:22.585 --> 00:52:22.915
Yeah.

00:52:22.960 --> 00:52:25.615
The, the most important, you
know, it's funny because this

00:52:25.615 --> 00:52:27.085
came up just a few days ago.

00:52:27.145 --> 00:52:32.035
My answer to a professional colleague
who might ask how I'm doing is, is a

00:52:32.035 --> 00:52:35.815
younger person, usually I will say,
well, you know, I've been around

00:52:35.815 --> 00:52:39.805
this business for a long time, but
I'm still having trouble being able

00:52:39.805 --> 00:52:42.445
to find a reliable crystal ball.

00:52:45.655 --> 00:52:46.945
So every day is dangerous.

00:52:46.975 --> 00:52:49.134
It's not a business where
you can really go to sleep.

00:52:49.375 --> 00:52:52.675
Jim Conrad: Is it, I guess correct
to say that it's a form of gambling?

00:52:52.765 --> 00:52:53.185
John Good: Yes.

00:52:53.965 --> 00:52:54.745
No hesitation.

00:52:55.045 --> 00:52:55.975
Jim Conrad: And you are a gambler.

00:52:56.035 --> 00:52:56.455
John Good: Yes.

00:52:56.605 --> 00:53:01.855
Jim Conrad: Does, uh, making a deal
and having something hit like standing

00:53:01.855 --> 00:53:05.155
at the, at the craps table or the,
the poker table and, and winning.

00:53:05.215 --> 00:53:06.445
Is it the same feeling?

00:53:06.505 --> 00:53:06.955
John Good: Yes.

00:53:07.435 --> 00:53:07.795
Better.

00:53:08.035 --> 00:53:08.815
Jim Conrad: 'Cause it's more money.

00:53:08.845 --> 00:53:08.935
John Good: Yeah.

00:53:10.285 --> 00:53:14.575
And it's a steady job sometimes, you know,
I mean, you can't survive in a casino.

00:53:14.665 --> 00:53:15.445
Jim Conrad: Some people try.

00:53:16.095 --> 00:53:17.685
John Good: Well, yes they do.

00:53:18.009 --> 00:53:18.170
Jim Conrad: Yeah.

00:53:19.995 --> 00:53:23.115
John Good: The, you know, I've tried
that, you know, I'm here to tell you

00:53:23.115 --> 00:53:28.365
that's, that's the hardest job that
I've ever tried to do in Las Vegas.

00:53:28.415 --> 00:53:30.285
Jim Conrad: It's just try to
be a professional gambler.

00:53:30.285 --> 00:53:30.795
John Good: It's hard.

00:53:30.945 --> 00:53:31.845
Those guys are good.

00:53:32.025 --> 00:53:32.384
Jim Conrad: Yeah.

00:53:32.384 --> 00:53:35.355
John Good: And they know what they're
doing and they'll wear you down.

00:53:38.535 --> 00:53:43.095
Jim Conrad: What is the future of
modern economies and where we're going?

00:53:43.275 --> 00:53:46.755
What will be our salvation and
or what will be our downfall?

00:53:46.875 --> 00:53:48.045
John Good: Well, I
won't be here to see it.

00:53:48.405 --> 00:53:48.915
Jim Conrad: Exactly.

00:53:49.365 --> 00:53:53.085
John Good: But I've come to the
conclusion that there is so much money.

00:53:53.775 --> 00:53:58.155
Every day there is more money
and more money and more money

00:53:58.875 --> 00:54:01.785
being dedicated to the gambling.

00:54:02.384 --> 00:54:08.189
At the same time, the technological
advances of humans in our

00:54:08.189 --> 00:54:09.990
culture connected to business.

00:54:10.049 --> 00:54:15.270
When I was first starting out as a
promoter, there was maybe one or two or

00:54:15.270 --> 00:54:21.839
3% of, of people actually professionally
or, or even invested in the markets.

00:54:21.899 --> 00:54:26.310
And now it's, I don't know what it is,
but it's high double digits for sure.

00:54:26.490 --> 00:54:30.120
Jim Conrad: Well, and the fact
that, um, the internet has now

00:54:30.359 --> 00:54:33.990
made everybody a day trader, is
that a good thing or a bad thing?

00:54:34.169 --> 00:54:35.850
It means more money in the market.

00:54:35.970 --> 00:54:37.620
But is that, is that money substantial?

00:54:37.680 --> 00:54:38.129
John Good: Yes.

00:54:38.459 --> 00:54:38.759
Jim Conrad: Okay.

00:54:38.765 --> 00:54:40.830
John Good: Yeah, it's enormous.

00:54:41.100 --> 00:54:41.370
Jim Conrad: Okay.

00:54:41.370 --> 00:54:43.200
John Good: It's, it's
a, it's unimaginable.

00:54:43.890 --> 00:54:47.939
People are living their lives and
they're, you know, concerned with all

00:54:47.939 --> 00:54:52.169
the things that they're doing in their
day, and even the really successful guys.

00:54:52.200 --> 00:54:59.399
And, but, I think I have some advantage
as a former journalist, newsman, media

00:54:59.399 --> 00:55:06.450
guy, and that helped me it helped me
in, uh, my career as, uh, somebody

00:55:06.600 --> 00:55:12.660
trying to be right aKA lucky and right
in picking, you know, an industry or,

00:55:12.660 --> 00:55:18.030
or a company or a sector or a movement
in, you know, where the energy's going.

00:55:18.720 --> 00:55:23.970
Because growing up, working, especially
starting so young in the media, the

00:55:24.000 --> 00:55:27.360
same people that listen to you on
the radio or watch you on television

00:55:27.360 --> 00:55:28.800
are the same people that buy stocks.

00:55:29.160 --> 00:55:29.520
Jim Conrad: True that.

00:55:29.520 --> 00:55:30.240
John Good: And invest.

00:55:30.780 --> 00:55:36.450
And so I think I had a bit of an advantage
in the, in the business world because

00:55:36.450 --> 00:55:42.000
I, I could sense a movement of the
audience and being a, a journalist, you

00:55:42.000 --> 00:55:45.250
have a sense and, and really you just
need a little bit of an edge sometimes

00:55:45.250 --> 00:55:50.400
to be making the right decision of
where the human interest is going to be.

00:55:50.760 --> 00:55:55.170
You know, I laugh about all of the
so-called advancements in, in our

00:55:55.170 --> 00:55:58.740
technology and our smartphones and
everything else, but I, I, I always

00:55:58.740 --> 00:56:04.350
remember that, that the platform really
hasn't changed in 50 or 60 or 75 years.

00:56:04.710 --> 00:56:08.765
It's a picture and it's a box with sound,
and that's the way it's always been.

00:56:10.024 --> 00:56:12.484
Maybe it'll be an implant
in our brain sometime but.

00:56:12.964 --> 00:56:14.134
Jim Conrad: A holographic image.

00:56:14.765 --> 00:56:19.234
John Good: I mean, I say to my
children and my children's friends

00:56:19.234 --> 00:56:22.625
who are in the business now,
that you'll all be billionaires.

00:56:23.044 --> 00:56:23.674
Jim Conrad: Eventually.

00:56:23.734 --> 00:56:27.125
John Good: Well, you can do
things with your telephone that

00:56:27.185 --> 00:56:28.834
we couldn't even do 25 years ago.

00:56:28.874 --> 00:56:29.584
Jim Conrad: Computing power.

00:56:29.765 --> 00:56:33.725
John Good: Well, I can trade, I can,
I can move money from my bank to my

00:56:33.725 --> 00:56:36.875
brokerage in less than two minutes.

00:56:36.875 --> 00:56:37.834
Jim Conrad: And you can react.

00:56:37.834 --> 00:56:38.884
John Good: And I can make a trade.

00:56:39.004 --> 00:56:43.654
Jim Conrad: And you can, you can react to
a market change or an event immediately.

00:56:43.714 --> 00:56:47.225
John Good: 24 hours a day,
and I can do it with my hand.

00:56:47.495 --> 00:56:49.444
I don't need to pick up a phone.

00:56:49.444 --> 00:56:50.705
I don't need to talk to a human.

00:56:50.765 --> 00:56:51.605
So that's where it's going.

00:56:52.174 --> 00:56:57.365
Jim Conrad: So what have you learned
in your varied and illustrious career?

00:56:58.865 --> 00:57:01.685
John Good: Well, okay,
let's start with this.

00:57:02.285 --> 00:57:07.290
One of the things that I have learned
is that everybody's good at something.

00:57:07.439 --> 00:57:09.839
Everybody's really good at something.

00:57:10.350 --> 00:57:12.689
I don't think you know
what it is necessarily.

00:57:12.720 --> 00:57:17.009
Maybe if you're, uh, entering the NHL
at 19, you've already got that part.

00:57:17.580 --> 00:57:21.600
But I think most of the rest of us live
into the things that we're going to be

00:57:21.600 --> 00:57:24.149
or do, and there's so much to learn.

00:57:24.779 --> 00:57:27.660
One of the things I've learned
in being on the planet for

00:57:27.660 --> 00:57:29.910
10 million years is that, uh,

00:57:29.910 --> 00:57:30.359
Jim Conrad: Give or take.

00:57:30.629 --> 00:57:30.990
John Good: Yeah.

00:57:31.200 --> 00:57:34.439
Give or take, is that, uh,
there's so much more to learn.

00:57:35.100 --> 00:57:37.020
One of the things I learned was,

00:57:37.109 --> 00:57:38.009
Jim Conrad: So never stop learning.

00:57:38.339 --> 00:57:38.609
John Good: No.

00:57:38.640 --> 00:57:45.089
Now I've, I've, I'm at a place where, at
my age now, mortality is something I think

00:57:45.089 --> 00:57:50.069
about, not every waking moment, but, you
know, every morning, sometimes at night,

00:57:50.069 --> 00:57:50.520
Jim Conrad: It's lurking.

00:57:51.089 --> 00:57:51.299
John Good: Yeah.

00:57:51.870 --> 00:57:57.345
So, you know, the gas tank
is less full technically.

00:57:57.375 --> 00:57:57.615
Jim Conrad: Yeah.

00:57:57.675 --> 00:57:59.865
John Good: Then it, you know,
it's just, I can't get outta this.

00:57:59.925 --> 00:58:00.045
Right.

00:58:00.045 --> 00:58:00.795
No, it's happening.

00:58:00.855 --> 00:58:01.035
Jim Conrad: Yeah.

00:58:01.515 --> 00:58:05.865
Uh, so what you've learned is that you
have to develop a relationship with fear.

00:58:06.015 --> 00:58:06.495
John Good: Well,

00:58:06.555 --> 00:58:09.585
Jim Conrad: Or identify it and be
conscious of it and understand that

00:58:09.645 --> 00:58:14.595
that cannot stop you from doing
what your instincts tell you to do.

00:58:14.955 --> 00:58:15.435
John Good: That's right.

00:58:15.525 --> 00:58:18.225
But sometimes your
instincts are protective.

00:58:18.405 --> 00:58:18.585
Jim Conrad: Yeah.

00:58:18.615 --> 00:58:18.945
John Good: Right.

00:58:19.695 --> 00:58:23.025
in my case, not so much, you know,
I live pretty recklessly, which

00:58:23.025 --> 00:58:26.475
is, you know, brings us to another
term or topic that you and I have

00:58:26.475 --> 00:58:28.185
talked about, and that's luck.

00:58:28.515 --> 00:58:31.935
Jim Conrad: What's the ratio
between luck and choice in

00:58:31.935 --> 00:58:33.855
your career and in your life?

00:58:34.425 --> 00:58:38.265
John Good: It's complex, but maybe
not all that complicated in my

00:58:38.265 --> 00:58:44.565
life, because I think because I
have the instinct to seek adventure.

00:58:45.240 --> 00:58:50.640
How I recognized something exciting
and I wanted to pursue it, and I did,

00:58:50.640 --> 00:58:54.510
and it was successful and it led to
the next thing and then the next thing.

00:58:55.230 --> 00:59:02.010
And so I was lucky because I learned
to not be afraid of the changes.

00:59:02.040 --> 00:59:06.690
And my brother, I remember him telling me
once years later, you know, by this time

00:59:06.690 --> 00:59:11.640
I'm 10 or 15 years into other careers,
investment banking, things like that.

00:59:11.730 --> 00:59:15.060
And he said, I don't know
how you live like this.

00:59:15.240 --> 00:59:20.970
Because he had a really good,
well paying, high profile job

00:59:20.970 --> 00:59:22.050
that he was really good at.

00:59:22.500 --> 00:59:24.900
And he was getting paid
every year by somebody.

00:59:25.080 --> 00:59:26.379
And he knew it was coming.

00:59:26.430 --> 00:59:29.070
I had no idea where I was gonna
be making my money next year.

00:59:29.190 --> 00:59:31.230
Some, maybe for some
years I had some ideas.

00:59:31.230 --> 00:59:33.360
But there were, there
were rude interruptions.

00:59:33.660 --> 00:59:38.040
Stock market crashes, other things that
happened in life that put you outta work.

00:59:38.190 --> 00:59:40.590
Jim Conrad: One of the keys to
being a good entrepreneurial

00:59:40.590 --> 00:59:46.215
businessman is relationships
and also being a great salesman.

00:59:46.215 --> 00:59:52.245
John Good: Personal contact and learning
from, I mean, I garnered absorbed

00:59:52.995 --> 00:59:59.955
information and clues from other
successful people because everywhere that

01:00:00.075 --> 01:00:04.245
I went, there were people that were way
more successful than me at that moment.

01:00:04.935 --> 01:00:09.945
And so I paid attention to their
behavior, to their manners, their

01:00:09.945 --> 01:00:14.895
etiquette, their business approach,
their social interaction with people.

01:00:14.895 --> 01:00:16.035
And I learned a lot from that.

01:00:16.035 --> 01:00:19.665
So these guys are good teachers
because they're already successful

01:00:19.785 --> 01:00:23.985
and in most cases very generous
with time and energy and resources

01:00:23.985 --> 01:00:26.055
to help someone else be good at it.

01:00:26.055 --> 01:00:30.375
So I think that maybe that's something
about salesmen that I'm not sure it

01:00:30.375 --> 01:00:32.475
exists in, in all of their professions.

01:00:32.475 --> 01:00:36.855
In fact, I know that it doesn't because
I've been unpleasantly surprised

01:00:37.185 --> 01:00:43.605
at people in business who fear the
people who are successful because

01:00:43.605 --> 01:00:49.634
I think they are insecure and, uh,
that can lead to backroom politics.

01:00:49.634 --> 01:00:55.665
It can be, very disturbing, but also
causes, you know, financial trouble and

01:00:55.665 --> 01:01:01.484
lots of real personal problems with, uh,
with personnel because of someone's fears.

01:01:01.545 --> 01:01:03.884
Someone else's fears projecting onto you.

01:01:04.484 --> 01:01:06.765
First of all, I think you have
to have a positive energy.

01:01:07.125 --> 01:01:11.234
I've always been an optimist, you know,
even, uh, you know, at the worst of

01:01:11.234 --> 01:01:16.455
times, uh, uh, I've always felt that,
um, I can make things better or I can

01:01:16.455 --> 01:01:18.975
find a way to get things to be better.

01:01:18.975 --> 01:01:23.190
Not that I'm the guy that's gonna make
it happen, but the forces around me.

01:01:23.190 --> 01:01:26.100
If you can assemble the energy
from different people and

01:01:26.130 --> 01:01:27.569
recognize the opportunity.

01:01:28.140 --> 01:01:32.460
Jim Conrad: So when you say to me,
Jim, all I need is one more miracle.

01:01:32.490 --> 01:01:32.790
John Good: Right.

01:01:33.089 --> 01:01:33.674
Jim Conrad: What do you mean by that?

01:01:33.755 --> 01:01:34.560
John Good: I do say that, don't I?

01:01:34.620 --> 01:01:35.310
Jim Conrad: You do say that.

01:01:35.700 --> 01:01:36.390
What do you mean by that?

01:01:36.900 --> 01:01:40.410
John Good: Well, since we started
out talking about the long distant

01:01:40.410 --> 01:01:43.200
past and those opportunities,
it's gotten me thinking.

01:01:43.410 --> 01:01:46.589
It's not so different today
than it was 50 years ago or 40.

01:01:46.799 --> 01:01:53.730
So I'm looking for that moment
or whatever, whether it's seeing,

01:01:53.730 --> 01:01:59.160
reading, or hearing, or detecting
the opportunity, because at this

01:01:59.160 --> 01:02:03.060
stage of my life, I'm, I think I'm
generally pretty good at recognizing

01:02:03.060 --> 01:02:06.660
where there might be an opportunity,
and I have pioneered a few different

01:02:06.660 --> 01:02:08.279
things in business along the way.

01:02:08.790 --> 01:02:17.460
So I'm optimistic that I have time
for one more miracle to get me

01:02:17.460 --> 01:02:21.000
outta the trouble I'm in now, right?

01:02:21.180 --> 01:02:25.860
So being a promoter and a salesman
and a businessman and, and not the

01:02:25.860 --> 01:02:30.360
most organized person, get people
around you that are organized.

01:02:30.360 --> 01:02:32.040
You know, that's another
really important thing.

01:02:32.070 --> 01:02:35.160
I'm not, I mean, you're looking at a
man that's never opened a piece of mail.

01:02:35.760 --> 01:02:40.380
So, you know, um, I explained in
our interview that I'm dyslexic.

01:02:40.810 --> 01:02:46.020
And so that created a whole bunch
of baggage for me going forward,

01:02:46.020 --> 01:02:48.870
because people can't look at you
and see that you're dyslexic.

01:02:49.440 --> 01:02:52.530
They just see that there's
something going on there.

01:02:52.740 --> 01:02:56.580
They don't know why I'm ADHD and
I've got all that other stuff going.

01:02:56.580 --> 01:03:01.110
So, but I can really focus on
certain energies and really

01:03:01.110 --> 01:03:05.640
accomplish, um, what I think are
the important things in that task.

01:03:06.015 --> 01:03:09.135
Or with that group, but don't
put me somewhere else in there.

01:03:09.135 --> 01:03:10.515
And people have made that mistake.

01:03:10.635 --> 01:03:13.335
I show up with all the energy
and all the ideas, and then they

01:03:13.335 --> 01:03:15.105
think they can all go to sleep.

01:03:15.855 --> 01:03:17.355
Make me the president, you know?

01:03:17.385 --> 01:03:20.015
And then they don't have to
do any work that's happened.

01:03:20.235 --> 01:03:22.965
And it fails because I
can't do all that work.

01:03:23.085 --> 01:03:26.115
I don't want to do all that work, and
I shouldn't be doing all that work.

01:03:26.115 --> 01:03:30.285
So that's where the tension comes in,
when people have agendas who don't

01:03:30.285 --> 01:03:34.425
have some of those skills of a, of
a, you know, the energy and so on.

01:03:34.425 --> 01:03:37.515
They're, they're, some of them can be very
good lawyers and very good accountants.

01:03:37.515 --> 01:03:42.945
And, but then they want to have control
of things, but they're not qualified.

01:03:42.945 --> 01:03:45.015
So that makes things complicated.

01:03:45.015 --> 01:03:49.755
So then you get to a place where you learn
to recognize those potential dangers,

01:03:49.905 --> 01:03:56.700
avoid those kinds of people and populate
the audience with other people like you.

01:03:57.000 --> 01:04:01.110
You know, it's like I had a guy in Toronto
once, um, a fellow by the name of David

01:04:01.110 --> 01:04:05.280
Goldman, who's been a very good friend
of mine for years, uh, businessman.

01:04:05.280 --> 01:04:09.120
And he once described
it as playing in a band.

01:04:09.420 --> 01:04:12.720
You want to have guys around that know
they can sit down and just start playing

01:04:12.720 --> 01:04:15.060
in the band, like it's a jam session.

01:04:15.090 --> 01:04:16.710
And I thought that was
a really good analogy.

01:04:16.710 --> 01:04:17.550
Jim Conrad: And they know their part.

01:04:18.000 --> 01:04:19.800
John Good: Well, it just works,
you know, because nobody's

01:04:19.800 --> 01:04:21.090
jealous, nobody's envious.

01:04:21.090 --> 01:04:23.550
They're just playing the instrument
that they're good at playing and

01:04:23.550 --> 01:04:25.110
other people let them do that.

01:04:25.470 --> 01:04:27.390
And, the business grows.

01:04:27.450 --> 01:04:29.940
Jim Conrad: And the greater good
is making a wonderful sound.

01:04:29.940 --> 01:04:30.300
John Good: It is.

01:04:30.360 --> 01:04:30.750
Yeah.

01:04:30.750 --> 01:04:30.760
Yeah.

01:04:31.200 --> 01:04:34.020
Jim Conrad: Would you categorize
yourself as a overachiever?

01:04:34.080 --> 01:04:34.710
John Good: Well, I don't know.

01:04:34.710 --> 01:04:38.220
I don't, not consciously, I think, well,
you know, I mean, I have other challenges.

01:04:38.220 --> 01:04:41.430
I'm, I'm bipolar, you know, I'm gonna
talk very candidly here about these

01:04:41.430 --> 01:04:43.140
things, but I couldn't read and write.

01:04:43.140 --> 01:04:45.480
So I became a very good
listener and watcher.

01:04:45.930 --> 01:04:47.730
I could see all the movements.

01:04:47.730 --> 01:04:51.150
I listened to everything,
especially what people had to say.

01:04:51.600 --> 01:04:57.900
So once I had achieved some measure
of success in my early twenties, and

01:04:57.900 --> 01:05:01.350
then moved into the business world
from broadcasting later on that same

01:05:01.350 --> 01:05:04.290
decade, I carried those skills with me.

01:05:04.950 --> 01:05:08.480
I listened real carefully to guys
like Peter Brown and Murray Pezim

01:05:08.610 --> 01:05:11.220
and Bruce McDonald and all these
guys that are a bit, in some

01:05:11.220 --> 01:05:12.600
cases, quite a bit older than me.

01:05:12.960 --> 01:05:14.670
Jim Conrad: What's the
biggest thing you've learned?

01:05:15.060 --> 01:05:17.010
John Good: That nobody's
ever had an original thought.

01:05:17.370 --> 01:05:19.260
Jim Conrad: We rediscover knowledge.

01:05:19.320 --> 01:05:21.420
John Good: And we can
predict certain things.

01:05:21.795 --> 01:05:25.904
Some with acute accuracy actually
in people's behavior and only

01:05:25.904 --> 01:05:27.884
people's behavior, but other things.

01:05:27.915 --> 01:05:32.775
I think primarily the, you know, I'm a,
a student of history and philosophy and

01:05:33.105 --> 01:05:37.214
information from thousands of years ago,
those guys knew what they were doing.

01:05:37.785 --> 01:05:42.495
Human behavior in many forms
hasn't changed that much.

01:05:42.525 --> 01:05:47.145
And so if you study those things
and then you live long enough and

01:05:47.145 --> 01:05:52.785
you have, you know, I didn't just
work at one job in one town for my

01:05:52.785 --> 01:05:54.335
whole career, which some people do.

01:05:54.765 --> 01:05:58.785
I came back here and I run into people
periodically who I knew from my early

01:05:58.785 --> 01:06:03.015
childhood who never left town, never
left the village that I grew up in.

01:06:04.530 --> 01:06:09.330
I came back here and, and, uh, I've
had a little more, I, I would say

01:06:09.330 --> 01:06:11.340
I've had a, a more adventurous life.

01:06:11.490 --> 01:06:13.440
I don't know that it's any
better than their life.

01:06:13.560 --> 01:06:17.640
I don't think I'd be very happy to stay
in one place for too long, even now.

01:06:19.740 --> 01:06:20.700
Jim Conrad: Well, I'm glad you're here.

01:06:20.760 --> 01:06:20.940
Yeah.

01:06:20.940 --> 01:06:22.830
Right here, right now, talking with us.

01:06:22.890 --> 01:06:23.520
Thank you, John.

01:06:23.640 --> 01:06:24.270
John Good: Thank you, Jim.

01:06:24.270 --> 01:06:24.795
Good to see you again.

01:06:35.670 --> 01:06:39.000
Jim Conrad: Episode nine
of the Conovision Podcast.

01:06:39.359 --> 01:06:42.960
My thanks to John Good for
giving us his knowledge, plus his

01:06:42.960 --> 01:06:45.810
experience equaling his wisdom.

01:06:46.770 --> 01:06:51.540
As well, Julio Olalla, founder of
Newfield Research and his essay on

01:06:51.540 --> 01:06:57.390
the Crises of the Western Mind, and we
began with questions about the nature

01:06:57.390 --> 01:06:59.609
of reality and the reality of nature.

01:07:00.120 --> 01:07:02.790
Hopefully, you have been
enlightened by listening.

01:07:04.830 --> 01:07:05.490
Thank you.

01:07:05.730 --> 01:07:10.950
Until next time, remember, we
are all stories to be told.

01:07:12.180 --> 01:07:13.230
I'm Jim Conrad.

01:07:13.550 --> 01:07:17.280
And this has been Conovision,
the spirit of storytelling.